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	<title>Comments on: How to make a Chopin Prelude</title>
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		<title>By: greg</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-987</link>
		<dc:creator>greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-987</guid>
		<description>Right on James! It is the old argument if theory creates composition or composition creates theory. We know the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on James! It is the old argument if theory creates composition or composition creates theory. We know the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: James Cook</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Aug 2008 19:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-986</guid>
		<description>At this particular blog, statements like 
&lt;i&gt;If you...visited this site in order to learn how to write your own prelude then...put roman numerals under every chord. &lt;/i&gt;
and
&lt;i&gt;buy Walter Pistons book on Harmony and read it!&lt;/i&gt;
offered without supporting argument, effectively constitute trolling, and such comments may be subject to deletion in the future.

Having said that, I&#039;ll address the interesting part of the previous comment:

&lt;i&gt;Composers do not write music by writing a schenker background and then filling in the gaps&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s because composers, by definition &lt;i&gt;already know&lt;/i&gt; how to write music. They don&#039;t need to explicitly go through the most elementary stages of musical construction; to them, the latter are either obvious or subconscious. Music isn&#039;t mysterious to composers, so they don&#039;t need it to be demystified. 

The target audience for pedagogical music theory is not Mozart or Chopin, and nor is it historians interested in a particular composer&#039;s sketching procedure. It is people -- musicians or laymen -- for whom the act of musical composition itself seems like a transcendent feat, beyond the reach of ordinary human cognition. People who know not of what ingredients music is made. People who are unable to mentally imagine music they have never heard before.

You cannot necessarily gain this kind of knowledge by observing a composer in the act, the way you can learn the ingredients of a meal by watching the chef prepare it. For between each sketch, or each improvised variation, the composer is silently using, in his or her mind, all the knowledge that he or she has and that you don&#039;t. This is why theory is different from composition. &lt;i&gt;Theory&lt;/i&gt; -- that is, &lt;i&gt;demystification&lt;/i&gt; of composition -- is where the study of music begins; in order to study &lt;i&gt;composition&lt;/i&gt; per se (how to actually put a piece together, effective sketching procedures, refined questions of aesthetics and rhetoric, etc.), you really have to be a composer already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this particular blog, statements like<br />
<i>If you&#8230;visited this site in order to learn how to write your own prelude then&#8230;put roman numerals under every chord. </i><br />
and<br />
<i>buy Walter Pistons book on Harmony and read it!</i><br />
offered without supporting argument, effectively constitute trolling, and such comments may be subject to deletion in the future.</p>
<p>Having said that, I&#8217;ll address the interesting part of the previous comment:</p>
<p><i>Composers do not write music by writing a schenker background and then filling in the gaps</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s because composers, by definition <i>already know</i> how to write music. They don&#8217;t need to explicitly go through the most elementary stages of musical construction; to them, the latter are either obvious or subconscious. Music isn&#8217;t mysterious to composers, so they don&#8217;t need it to be demystified. </p>
<p>The target audience for pedagogical music theory is not Mozart or Chopin, and nor is it historians interested in a particular composer&#8217;s sketching procedure. It is people &#8212; musicians or laymen &#8212; for whom the act of musical composition itself seems like a transcendent feat, beyond the reach of ordinary human cognition. People who know not of what ingredients music is made. People who are unable to mentally imagine music they have never heard before.</p>
<p>You cannot necessarily gain this kind of knowledge by observing a composer in the act, the way you can learn the ingredients of a meal by watching the chef prepare it. For between each sketch, or each improvised variation, the composer is silently using, in his or her mind, all the knowledge that he or she has and that you don&#8217;t. This is why theory is different from composition. <i>Theory</i> &#8212; that is, <i>demystification</i> of composition &#8212; is where the study of music begins; in order to study <i>composition</i> per se (how to actually put a piece together, effective sketching procedures, refined questions of aesthetics and rhetoric, etc.), you really have to be a composer already.</p>
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		<title>By: ss</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>ss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Aug 2008 22:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-985</guid>
		<description>Well this post doesn&#039;t really have a relvant title! Composers do not write music by writing a schenker background and then filling in the gaps. All of Chopin can easily be analysed in terms of tonal harmony and it is quite evident what keys he is in at any point in time. You just have to what out for the false modulations when the music seems to be modulating away for a couple of bars and then returns to the tonic. I I7 IV V is a classic example of this. By stating I7 we believe that he is going to modulate to the sub-dominant but by reintroducing the IV chord he actaully reestablishes the same key rather than modulating. But really the title of this blog should be Analysing a Chopin Prelude. If you are like me and visited this site in order to learn how to write your own prelude then don&#039;t bother with any blogs or books out there just study the music straight away and put roman numerals under every chord. The only exception to this is to buy Walter Pistons book on Harmony and read it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well this post doesn&#8217;t really have a relvant title! Composers do not write music by writing a schenker background and then filling in the gaps. All of Chopin can easily be analysed in terms of tonal harmony and it is quite evident what keys he is in at any point in time. You just have to what out for the false modulations when the music seems to be modulating away for a couple of bars and then returns to the tonic. I I7 IV V is a classic example of this. By stating I7 we believe that he is going to modulate to the sub-dominant but by reintroducing the IV chord he actaully reestablishes the same key rather than modulating. But really the title of this blog should be Analysing a Chopin Prelude. If you are like me and visited this site in order to learn how to write your own prelude then don&#8217;t bother with any blogs or books out there just study the music straight away and put roman numerals under every chord. The only exception to this is to buy Walter Pistons book on Harmony and read it!</p>
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		<title>By: pianist</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-979</link>
		<dc:creator>pianist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 22:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-979</guid>
		<description>Hi everybody 

If you ever want to know about chopin check out this website its very good.

http://www.socyberty.com/History/Chopin-a-Great-Pianist.166961</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everybody </p>
<p>If you ever want to know about chopin check out this website its very good.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.socyberty.com/History/Chopin-a-Great-Pianist.166961" rel="nofollow">http://www.socyberty.com/History/Chopin-a-Great-Pianist.166961</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Westergaardian vertical dimension, Part 1 &#171; Mathemusicality</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-246</link>
		<dc:creator>The Westergaardian vertical dimension, Part 1 &#171; Mathemusicality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-246</guid>
		<description>[...] chords that are found in E minor tonality. As an example, shift the entire right hand part of the Prelude over by one beat, so it starts at exactly the same time as the left hand&#8230; How would the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] chords that are found in E minor tonality. As an example, shift the entire right hand part of the Prelude over by one beat, so it starts at exactly the same time as the left hand&#8230; How would the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chopin: Round 2 &#171; Mathemusicality</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Chopin: Round 2 &#171; Mathemusicality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Sep 2007 11:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-124</guid>
		<description>[...] now, it&#8217;s time to roll up our sleeves for the second round (the first round is here): JC - [I&#8217;ll ignore the straw man version of harmonic theory James describes first. I made [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] now, it&#8217;s time to roll up our sleeves for the second round (the first round is here): JC &#8211; [I&#8217;ll ignore the straw man version of harmonic theory James describes first. I made [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stay tuned&#8230; &#171; Mathemusicality</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-89</link>
		<dc:creator>Stay tuned&#8230; &#171; Mathemusicality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:33:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-89</guid>
		<description>[...]  The inevitable has happened: Scott Spiegelberg has returned fire on the harmony question. Unfortunately, I&#8217;ll be busy in meatspace over the next couple of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  The inevitable has happened: Scott Spiegelberg has returned fire on the harmony question. Unfortunately, I&#8217;ll be busy in meatspace over the next couple of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Regerian &#8220;harmony&#8221; and the tonal system &#171; Mathemusicality</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Regerian &#8220;harmony&#8221; and the tonal system &#171; Mathemusicality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 09:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-41</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;reger chord progressions&#8221; into a search engine. (Evidently they were led to my Chopin post, where Max is given a brief mention.) You have to be kidding me, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;reger chord progressions&#8221; into a search engine. (Evidently they were led to my Chopin post, where Max is given a brief mention.) You have to be kidding me, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Schoenberg op. 19 no. 2 &#171; Mathemusicality</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Schoenberg op. 19 no. 2 &#171; Mathemusicality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Aug 2007 17:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-27</guid>
		<description>[...] as &#8220;tonal&#8221; once we start thinking about &#8220;tonal&#8221; music in the right way. Contributing to the drama is the fact that Westergaard himself never intended his &#8220;tonal [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as &#8220;tonal&#8221; once we start thinking about &#8220;tonal&#8221; music in the right way. Contributing to the drama is the fact that Westergaard himself never intended his &#8220;tonal [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Cook</title>
		<link>http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathemusicality.wordpress.com/2007/08/05/how-to-make-a-chopin-prelude/#comment-21</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I&#039;m surprised that you think Schenker didn&#039;t believe in &quot;harmony&quot; or &quot;chord progressions&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I never said that. What I said was that &lt;i&gt;I&lt;/i&gt; don&#039;t believe in harmony or chord progressions. Regarding Schenker, I said:

&lt;i&gt;It is a model so hallowed by tradition that even Schenker needed several decades to break free of it — and he &lt;/i&gt;almost&lt;i&gt; succeeded.&lt;/i&gt;

Note that critical word &quot;almost&quot;!  Yes, it&#039;s true that there are Roman numerals in &lt;i&gt;Free Composition&lt;/i&gt; -- but the role they play there is very limited in comparison with their role in traditional &quot;harmonic analysis&quot;. In fact, he could have dispensed with them altogether, had he wanted or cared to. (This may be a good topic for a future post.) Of course, it did take him a while to get to that point...

&lt;i&gt;He wrote a whole book on harmony&lt;/i&gt;

Indeed he did -- his very first book, published in 1906. The theory presented in that book represented a radical departure from the theories that were widely taught at the time (and still today!). Since I&#039;m on vacation at the moment and don&#039;t have my copy handy, I&#039;ll just refer you to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-step&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wikipedia article on Stufen &lt;/a&gt;, and the passage from &lt;i&gt;Harmony&lt;/i&gt; quoted therein. See also &quot;Rameau or Beethoven?&quot; from the third volume of &lt;i&gt;The Masterwork in Music&lt;/i&gt; (if you can get past the francophobic ranting). 

&lt;i&gt;Have you read Free Composition?&lt;/i&gt;

Yes. Have you read &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Westergaard%27s_tonal_theory&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;An Introduction to Tonal Theory&lt;/a&gt;?

&lt;i&gt;I don’t have time right now to debate each point you make, perhaps in a few weeks after I finish putting my tenure file together.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;ll still be here, so there&#039;s no hurry. I look forward to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I&#8217;m surprised that you think Schenker didn&#8217;t believe in &#8220;harmony&#8221; or &#8220;chord progressions&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I never said that. What I said was that <i>I</i> don&#8217;t believe in harmony or chord progressions. Regarding Schenker, I said:</p>
<p><i>It is a model so hallowed by tradition that even Schenker needed several decades to break free of it — and he </i>almost<i> succeeded.</i></p>
<p>Note that critical word &#8220;almost&#8221;!  Yes, it&#8217;s true that there are Roman numerals in <i>Free Composition</i> &#8212; but the role they play there is very limited in comparison with their role in traditional &#8220;harmonic analysis&#8221;. In fact, he could have dispensed with them altogether, had he wanted or cared to. (This may be a good topic for a future post.) Of course, it did take him a while to get to that point&#8230;</p>
<p><i>He wrote a whole book on harmony</i></p>
<p>Indeed he did &#8212; his very first book, published in 1906. The theory presented in that book represented a radical departure from the theories that were widely taught at the time (and still today!). Since I&#8217;m on vacation at the moment and don&#8217;t have my copy handy, I&#8217;ll just refer you to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale-step" rel="nofollow">Wikipedia article on Stufen </a>, and the passage from <i>Harmony</i> quoted therein. See also &#8220;Rameau or Beethoven?&#8221; from the third volume of <i>The Masterwork in Music</i> (if you can get past the francophobic ranting). </p>
<p><i>Have you read Free Composition?</i></p>
<p>Yes. Have you read <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Westergaard%27s_tonal_theory" rel="nofollow">An Introduction to Tonal Theory</a>?</p>
<p><i>I don’t have time right now to debate each point you make, perhaps in a few weeks after I finish putting my tenure file together.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;ll still be here, so there&#8217;s no hurry. I look forward to it.</p>
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